Punish Demopolis Schools “By Any Means Necessary”

dave · 02-06-2003

When I first read about Michaela Curtis and her fight against corporal punishment in schools, I felt some empathy for her and her family. I put myself in her shoes, and wondered what my reaction would be to another person doing harm to my child. My first reaction was the ole “eye for an eye” angle. Take the teacher responsible out back and ask him/her to try the same thing on me.
Then I stepped back and thought about it. If my child daughter is being bad in school, she needs to be punished. I had enough paddling sessions in grade school to take up everyone’s share, and I wasn’t damaged because of it. When our parents found out we got in trouble at school, they got mad at us for doing wrong, not at the school for attempting to correct the action.
I stated awhile back that I thought the Curtis’s were on a vendetta against Demopolis Public Schools. Here’s the response I got from the Curtis’s.

	Quote:
	I want to make it clear that I am not waging war with Demopolis City System. Overall, it is IMO the best system in this part of the state and that is why I have fought so hard to keep Jonathan in Demopolis schools. My issue is with Jennifer Lay and her statement that she has left bruising on at least one other Westside boy following his paddling.

In a recent letter to the Democrat-Reporter,Michaela accuses Demopolis Schools of racism based on numbers she’s obtained on the ratio of punishment between black males and the rest of the student body. Here’s what she reported in the paper:

Demopolis High School 2000 (9-12) Black males represent 18.97% of the student body, 33.33% of suspensions, 100% of expulsions, no CP reported.
DMS 2000 (6-8) Black males 24.51% of student body, 46.15% of suspensions, no CP or expulsions reported.
US Jones 2000 (3-5)Black males 25.49% of body, no expulsions, 100% of suspensions, and 66.66 % of CP.
Westside Elementary 2000 (K-2) No reported punishment, though this is the year and school Jonathon Curtis received his paddling and bruises.

My first question is; what does this have to do with one white boy’s spanking? This whole thing started with Jonathon Curtis, who’s Caucasian, getting bruised during an episode of CP at Westside. Now it’s the School is racially biased when it comes to giving out punishment? If that were the case, Jonathon wouldn’t have gotten the board; they would have saved the energy for a black student.
To address the numbers provided, they mean nothing. 100% could mean one person suspended for all we know. Comparing percentage of student body with percentage of punishment is misleading in itself. You should have compared black boys with white boys instead of black boys VS the rest of the school. I think it’s fair to say that boys make up the majority of punishment in school. Also, the data gives no examples of white students doing the same deed and receiving smaller or no punishment when a black student did the same thing and got worse out of it. There are no cases sited of unfair punishment at all, just that black males tend to be in trouble more. I won’t argue that forms of racism and biased behavior don’t exist in school here, because in some forms it does. I will say that I went through 12 years of Demopolis Public Schools, and when it came time to punishment, the good teachers there didn’t care what color you were. I’m living proof.

If I had to give advice here, I’d say take Jonathon out of the school system. Put him on home schooling. Or, put him in Demopolis Academy. There you know whites are loved, and those that pay their bill on time are loved even more. On the link you provided for Jonathon's bruises,remove the pictures of his face and activities. The boy is going to have a hard enough time without pictures of him smiling next to pictures of his naked rear.

nursescare · 02-07-2003

Accurate numbers speak volumes- when they are indeed accurate. I included the Internet Site with the actual numbers. You are correct. Numbers can be used in such a way as to support most any position. Alabama public schools REPORTED hitting 44,822 students. Reporting is voluntary and most likely this number is very low. Race should have nothing to do with the discipline imposed and until recently I thought race was not a factor in discipline. The fact that my family is Caucasian, in no way diminishes the fact that African-American males are over representated when it comes to corporal punishment, suspension and expulsion in Dem City Schools. No child should be beaten to the point of bruising. The fact that AA boys bear the brunt of physical discipline in our system, does not mean that no other students are being mistreated by this one teacher. I have been contacted by several parents whose children, mostly white boys, were also left bruised. What does race have to do with my son's bruising except to demonstrate that this teacher abuses children without prejudice? I believe that the Dem City Schools is worth fixing. 95% or more of the teachers are great at their job. They teach from the heart with a sincere desire to help children. But current AL law lets this one poorly skilled teacher hide among the ranks of the teachers who deserve our praise. If, as you state in other forums, you want Demopolis to move forward, then we must address the problem areas and fix them. Discipline is a must but it does not have to come at the physical and psychological health of children.

dave · 02-08-2003

There was no website given for the numbers you presented. Just mention of the "the Office Of Civil Rights" website. I've searched every listing of that title and haven't been able to find the date you talk about. A link would be appreciated. Also, the numbers I'm talking about are percentages. The actual numbers differences would be more telling, or at least the total nuber of various punishments in each school. 100% can mean 1 or 100. 33.33% can mean 1 out of 3 or 300 out of 900, etc.

nursescare · 02-08-2003

I can only guess that I dropped the site address when I sent it since it is in my copy of the e-mail sent to webmaster@demopolis.biz and others have reported receiving it.
No problem. I'll take you though it below. I have all raw data in Excel format but I can walk you you through your own search.

http://205.207.175.84/ocr2000r/

click on View Data E & S Survey for 2000 next

click on Reported Data next

click Student Enrollment 07/8A ...incidents of student discipline

click on yellow box by Al to expand for each school system

click on yellow box by Demopolis City School Dist to expand

****you can search by district which I did at first but after I looked at all data, I found that the averaged/combined data hid a multitute of sins****

click school desired (middle school as ex.) then click continue

After that the rest is easy. I chose both actaul numbers and percentages. Then choose enrollment, corporal punishment, suspension and expulsions.

I chose male, female and totals. Some totals are not correct. I have been told by the OCR rep that totals in actual numbers are accurate and that as explained in the footer, percentage totals may be off slightly. Because of this stated potential problem with totals, I did the math myself and did not use their "total" colum.

The schools reported zero (0) American Indian or Asian students. By omiting these on your search, the report is somewhat smaller and fits the screen better. To start over w/ next school either use back button or click on State/Dist/School to the upper left.

Jeff · 02-09-2003

Here are the number I get, as well as percentages. The one thing we do have to remember is that we are talking about very small numbers here. Normally percentages used for somthing like this would be versus national number, not city numbers. So 50% can mean as little as one person in certain catagories. I think the actual numbers rather than the percentages speak the real truth!

dave · 02-09-2003

Since the issue is corporal punishment-The only numbers shown are 10 black males vs 5 white males vs 5 black females. You can't seriously argue racial biased here with a difference of only 5 students. I feel this is a weak attempt at making the school system look bad.

nursescare · 02-09-2003

I was contacted this weekend by a family with medical documentaion of a broken coccyx from a school paddling here in Demopolis. The family has put me in touch with an RN and an EMT who both have had children bruised by school paddlings. I've seen photos on one child where bruising was deep and very severe, quite literally larger than the entirs surface of the child's buttocks. The bruising bleeds into the side/hip area. My son's bruising was barely 1/10 of the severity of the photos I saw last night while we reviewed the medical report.

I had hoped that the attention I brought to the potential for abuse would encourage teachers (one in specific) to use additional caution while paddling. Looks like she did not take the suggestion. Each time I bring light into a problem, I hope it will be the end and I will have good news to write letters about.

Adding this family to my list of families with children left bruised by paddlings at school, it becomes easy to see the problem. There seems to be a chronic "no-see no-tell" cover up to hide the excessive beatings. Thank Coach Speegle and Mrs Patterson for ensuring that I will be contacted for any discipline problems. I volunteer at the school several times per week and I donate class basic supplies as well as art supplies. I donate cash to pay for parties for the class. I feel that I have an excellant relationship with my children's teachers and principals, and secretaries. I feel very comfortable with the promise make to me that corporal punishment will never be used on any of my children ever. I agree to go to school and take care of any problem that the school feels needs my assistance.

My son was bruised and humilliated when the teacher lifted his shirt and lowered his pants to "look for marks". I was very angry but our case seem minor after meeting this family with a child bruised and broken at the haands of the same woman according to the parents of the injured boy.

Maybe one day. Demopolites will realize that teachers can have discipline and respect mostly by modeling that behavior consistantly to the students. Constructive criticism is the next step if modeling is not enough. After that I believe the family and the teacher together come to an agreement which may or may not included corporal punishment. But Breaking an elementary school boy's coccyx is not the answer. Children must have respect. My sons' teachers all have our respect because they have earned it. They teach with respect, the guide with concern and compassion and they push children to excell and be better people. I fully trust the teachers who educated my sons day to day. My only concern is the one teacher who 'floats' to other city schools to teach lessons in morality, respect and courtesy. I think it is a joke to have the most abusive teacher in the system doing the lessons on morals, right and wrong. Enough for now.

kaye334 · 02-09-2003

When you compare the percentage of black students receiving CP to all other black students, and the same for whites, there is a less than 1% difference! Attempts to make this a racial issue are simply crazy!!! You must look at the fact that the majority of students at Jones were black for that year!

It appears that Jones reported CP, Westside did not. On the same note, Jones reported students in the gifted program, Westside did not. My son was in the gifted/enrichment program that year at Westside. So, CP was not the only thing that was NOT reported year.

I do agree that there are problems facing ALL school systems. Demopolis City is not an exception. All parents, even ones who teach could site problems. We do not live in a perfect world, so, unfortunately, we can not send our children to perfect schools. I don't have perfect children, nor does anyone else.

SOOOOO, my solution to the CP in schools is to discipline children at home, make sure they know the consequences for bad behavior. If a time out chair works, do it; if the corner works, do it; if a spanking works, do it! (The key words here are "if it works.") Just get a handle on it at home. Home discipline is very evident by the children's behavior outside of the home!

Proverbs 13:24
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

Proverbs 23:13-14
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.

When I was a kid, I hated my parents for spanking me, but now that I'm older, I'm so glad they did!!!!

dave · 02-10-2003

	Quote:
	Originally posted by nursescare My son was bruised and humilliated when the teacher lifted his shirt and lowered his pants to "look for marks".

If this humuliated him, how does he feel when his mother puts his name in the paper as often as possible telling everyone he picks his nose. Or pasting naked pictures of him on the internet?
My problem wasn't with your claim of excessive hitting with the paddle. My problem is accusing an institution of racism just to further your cause against CP.

nursescare · 02-10-2003

Inconsistant reporting is a problem that can easily be fixed by the school and the school board without spending any money. Did the schools fail to report all data or did they intentionally report zero in some catagories? Missing data makes it seem like they are hiding something.

As for only 1 % difference, that is true when you combine data for males and females. I did not combine data because it seems that boys bear the brunt of corporal punishment. Averaging in girls permits one to dilute the statistics and takes attention away from areas of greatest disproportionality. When comparing discipline data for African American males, it should be compared with the proportional representation of African American(AA) males in the student body.

Corporal punishment/suspension/expulsion of AA males occured in proportions that exceeded the A A proportions of
their respective school's student populations plus 10% of
that population ("Chinn and Hughes P ± 10% of P" formula).

****example...US Jones 2000 AA males represent 28.46 % of student body.. add 10% (2.9 rounded) One could expect AA males to receive roughly 31.36 % of the cor pun. Not twice that at 66.67% as reported.

A simple class in statistics would explain that comparing proportional representations is not the same as comparing total student body numbers. By gathering data based on proportional representation, the statistics have already accounted for the percentages of each race. (Kaye334 You must look at the fact that the majority of students at Jones were black for that year!) Of ourse, all of this is based on the data that is supplied by the school.

If the schools reported with full disclosure, perhaps the over representation of black males would diminish. As mentioned, cor pun was not the only data missing. Who should be accountable for failure to report or inconsistant reporting of data? A great deal of our grant and supplemental money is based on the data supplied to state and federal institutions. Which is all the more reason to ensure the data is accurate.