Sassy Frass's Child Support Issue

[stickman]

After talking to Sassy Frass's friend MOM on the phone and getting details, it seems that DAD (if you want to call him that) is about 10 - 11 months behind on child support for three children @ $900/month ($300/month per child). That's a prettty hefty chunk of change! This does not include the interest that should/will be tacked on for late payments. What suprises me the most is that DAD has filed for a modification of child support citing he has no income. Knowing who he is, who his family is, and the businesses they own, assessing DAD's current living & family arrangements, and the fact that he has a child on the way with the new wife, I find it really hard to believe the boy is not gainfully employed or has no visible means of income. I think his filing for modification of child support is a BIG mistake on his part because when he gets in that courtroom and the judge finds out he's behind in his child support, he will most likely buy a trip to jail. If he tries to pull the "I have no job and no income" as a defense, the judge is going to look at all the same areas I have evaluated and see right through this smokescreen. If in fact the boy has no job, the judge will either tell him to find a job real quick or put him in jail and put him on work release until he gets his child support paid up. I think if or when the judge finds out Rusty Nichols has been cutting him some slack on this by putting MOM off will only sink dear old DAD deeper in trouble. IF Rusty Nichols has, in fact, been aiding and abetting deadbeat DAD in his efforts to evade his fiduciary responsibilities towards his children, he was wrong for doing so.

DAD has asked for a defined child visitation order, stating that MOM is refusing to let him have the children. He says (according to the court papers) that she is not allowing the children visitation with DAD. She on the other hand, tells me DAD is not putting forth the effort to see his children and wants MOM to go out of her way to facilitate visitation (ie: bring the children to him) instead of at least meeting her halfway, or if she brings them to him, he brings them home. She cites several instances where he was suppose to pick the children up on the weekend and either didn't show, or called and offered the children some lame excuse as to why he was not coming to get them.

MOM cited a recent phone call to one of the children from DAD where he outright told one of the children that their "Poppy" (grandfather) was dead. This was WRONG and TRAUMATIZING to the child! DAD should have had the decency to have told MOM about this and let her break the news to the children.

MOM has a few other tricks up her sleeve that I will not reveal here. I hope that MOM gets the justice she is looking for when she gets to court. She's gonna have an uphill battle in Marengo County because the deck is stacked against her here. It seems that DAD's family has some influence in the courthouse and is trying to pull some favorable treatment for what seems to be stacking up as an otherwise sorry excuse for a father. Then and again, maybe I should hold my judgement until I hear the other side of this story.

My advice to MOM in this issue is: Stick to your guns. You got him by the kahones regardless of what others tend to try to lead you to believe. Don't back down and don't take any sidebar or cut-rate settlements. Just be cool, work with your attorney (since DHR apparently is not going to step up to bat) and bide your time peacefully.

My advice to DAD based on what I know of this deal: GROW UP! You are acting like a selfish spoiled brat! You need to stop and think about what you are doing to your children! Regardless of what has happened between you and MOM, you are going to have to put your differences aside and work toward what's best for your children. If you continue your current course, when you get old and ready to die, you are going to have three children (and possibly four if you do with the new one on the way what you have done with the three you already have) that will let you go to your grave hating you and glad you're dead and gone. If you alienate your children, you may never know the joys of being a grandparent. You are most likely to die a miserable, lonely old man who died wishing he could go back and change it all. You can make the change now if you wanted to. Question is, are you still a immature spoiled brat child masquerading as a man, or are you a MAN? Should you choose immature spoiled brat child, then change nothing and continue to do what you're doing now. If you choose MAN, let's see you step up to the plate, make changes, and do what we know is the right thing to do without punishing the mother and the children.

As a footnote to this thread / post, I am struggling with the debate whether or not to pubicly identify the "Deadbeat Dad" in this case. DHR has "Deadbeat Dad Wanted Posters" for those who choose to shuck their responsibilities to their children. Nothing would be more embarrassing than for all his friends to know such a fiend lurks amongst them. I think if DAD's friends knew what he was doing to the ex-wife and children, they would exert peer pressure for him to step up and do the right thing.


Stickman

[Roxanne]

Stickman,
I don't know anything about liable laws or whether there could be any trouble if you identified him. You know a lot more about that than I do. But I would love to know who he is. Nothing makes me angrier than a man who won't support his children. Also, if he is using money and position to avoid his responsibilities, he deserves whatever bad publicity he gets.

I don't know who MOM's lawyer is, but if I were getting divorced or facing any issue like this, I would not use anyone but Wylene Gilmore in Clarke county. I have never met her, but her reputation is awesome. Maybe MOM could give her a call. You need a shark in a situation like this.

[stickman]

In response to Roxanne's concerns about libel or slander, as long as what's said or published is the truth, there is NOTHING that can be done about it! As long as I am not intentionally misrepresenting facts, I am in the clear. Either I can identify him or DHR can put him up on a WANTED poster. One way or another this deadbeat needs to be exposed.

As for lawyers, rest assurred MOM has one of the best lawyers money can buy. MOM told me she has used Wylene Gilmore before, but was unhappy with the work she did for her previously. While Wylene Gilmore has the reputation of being a shark and a man-eater, she has a tendency to be lazy and drag her feet about getting her legal work done. I know this because MOM told me she did this to her. I also had a friend in Demopolis recently divorced and his ex-wife's lawyer was none other than Wylene Gilmore. Furthermore, that was one case where she didn't come out on top. I think my friend got the better deal in that divorce case!

Stickman

[Roxanne]

Great. I'm just glad she researched her options. I'll be glad to find out who he is whenever you get ready to tell!

[Wonder_Woman]

Hi people,
I have been reading the postings here for the past few weeks trying to decide if I wanted to register or not and well I guess you know what I decided to do..I have been reading about this situation and just wanted to send my prayers to the MOM.. I sincerly hope she can get this jerk to pay what he owes.. I know how if feels to have the cards against you and no help. people against you.

[rob]

If it were up to me,I'd plaster his *** up in as many public places as I possibly could in BOLD PRINT!Treating your kid bad is about the sorriest thing a so-called "man" could do.

[Bug]

Where do MOM and Deadbeat Dad have child support court, Clarke Co or Marengo Co? Does Deadbeat Dad have a job of his own or does his family support him? Does MOM work?

[Sassy Frass]

Court will have to be in Marengo County now that he filed a modification of child support days before DHR would have had it moved to her county. DHR can not do anything for her now, because of his QUICK FILING. She has obtained a lawyer that is anxious to get in court.

DADDY.........He has said many different things concerning his employment. His websites, which were deleted only weeks ago, stated his place of employment, not for himself. There are many different things that he could be doing. He will claim the one that is most likely to benifit him the most.

Mother Friend works in her town a few days a week helping to restore a home for a family. She's had sugery and health problems for the past couple of years and currently undergoing further testing.

She's very positive about this, I on the other hand feel as though she and those kids are going to get slammed again in Marengo Court.

[mosaic]

I'm totally new to Demopolislive but this is one subject near and dear to my heart. I have worked in the legal field for the past 10 years in another state, having relocated and began learning the Alabama legal system only 6 months ago.

First, Wylene Gilmore-Phillipe is not who I would use in a divorce/custody matter for the same reasons stated above. She seems to have too much on her plate to be able to devote the time each case deserves to that case and is, therefore, very slow to get things done. Although not all of it can be blamed on her. The system here is horrendous! In the state I moved from and all of my legal experience is in, divorces/custody/child support is taken care of post haste but here the system moves like molasses. It might be from the fact that there is only one (1) judge for 3 counties and he handles all circuit matters from criminal court to divorces. That is such a farce. How can anyone expect things to be done properly here....he (in our case, Judge Eddie Hardaway) has far too much to deal with. One day he's hearing the case of a murder in one county and the next he's in another county hearing about child support. Don't let me get started on the judicial system here....much less all the various forms of favoritism I have seen in my short 6 months. Oh geez!

Anyway, I am on both sides of the child support issue. I am a divorced mother of two teenage girls who's father fell 26 weeks behind in child support some time back (he was in rehab for part of that time and just being drunk and lazy the other part.) Now, he is remarried and pays his c/s like clockwork. Have I taken him to court to get the arrearage he owes me? No. If things ever get that tough for me (us), I will but I'm just glad to see his life back on track and that he's taking his responsibility seriously now. I am one exwife many men would be lucky to have because I do not gripe and I am understanding that we all fall on hard times. But if he ever chooses not to pay again just because he doesn't want to pay or if he's hiding money to keep his children from getting their share....I'll have his butt back in court so fast it will make your head spin.

On the other hand, my fiance's ex-wife gripes about her child support constantly. If he is 2 days late paying she's calling DHR to report him. She has no idea that his income has dropped since the divorce and that if he wanted to he could modify his child support down by 1/3 a month but because this man WANTS to take care of his child he's not done that...yet. Because he is constantly threatened with court for being 5 minutes late (always because of work) to pick his child up for visitation and those sorts of childish maneuvers, he will eventually get his fill and have his child support reduced. So she's shooting herself in the foot and doesn't even know it.

So I can see each side of the argument. I have watched legal battles over domestic matters every day for 10 years. No one knows totally what goes on in a case. Each party has a side and the truth generally lies somewhere in the middle. Not doubting MOM's story here, just saying that I don't know her situation, her Ex or his true situation nor what has transpired between them so it's hard to say "Go get the b*stard" without having seen the evidence first hand.

There are tons of men AND women who shirk there parental responsibilities and child support. If that is truly what MOM's Ex is doing then he should get slapped by Judge Hardaway for his neglect...but don't expect it to happen very fast, not around these parts.

Peace.

[Miss Agonist]

Someone kin to me told me this morning that Dead Beat Dad Spent the whole weekend at a race. That "Bama person" wrote, that he's sponsered, is it not true that a "sponser", if paying for expenses, would pay the racer also?

[Bug]

Just to clarify things, Judge Hardaway does not normally handle the child support cases. Those are handled by Roseberry from
Hale County and he has proved to be very fair so far. Judge Hardaway only sits in on Child Support cases when Roseberry or Drinkard are not available for other reasons.

[mosaic]

When my fiance was scheduled for court on his child support issue back in July, it was Judge Hardaway he was to appear before. Judge Hardaway, as a norm, only passes cases to Judges Drinkard or Roseberry when they are uncontested matters (ie divorces, default judgments, child support, etc.) is what was told to me by my boss who has practiced law here for 42 years. And any judgments handed down are still his responsibility as the only sitting Circuit Judge in the 3 county area.

[Miss Agonist]

Yea, but what's this judges record as far as c.s. cases. Someone has said he does not make these men pay back c.s. Someone else has said that Judge Hardaway is practicing the "you pay or you stay" idea, the same that the judge in Clark county. The day of court, dad has to pay up what's owed to his kids or he goes to the county jail until, whenever. Instead of this mess about paying a little a month until it's caught up with. Clark county is finally making their system work, shouldn't our judges do the same things, especially if the county needs more money.

[Sassy Frass]

Miss Agonist, he hasn't been one to care what he does with his money, other than what he wants to do. He did go race the entire weekend, last weekend. His priorities are clear and have been for some time. Unfortunately, now she has to go thru a long process and then allow (a judge) someone else make the decidions about what will effect Mother- Friend, DEADBEAT, more importantly the Kids. The situation is difficult to bear the constant worry of, "...dad's gonna get away with it again..."

As far as who will be the Judge, I don't know. I've heard the same thing about the "PAY OR STAY" deal, but only in Clarke County. Most DEADBEATs have this idea that they don't owe the Kids and Mom anything. Even telling the judges, "How am I gonna pay if I'm in Jail?" The Judge in Clarke County told the man, "You should have thought about that before you walked in my door... BALIFF! ..." Bet your britches deadbeats are beginning to fear Clarke county and its D.A. The word's been out down there about PAY or STAY. Judge Kimbrough is straightening that place up.

[mosaic]

I don't, as a single mother collecting child support, like the idea of pay or stay for currently employed payees...it IS hard to get money out of an unemployed prisoner. But I do like what Arkansas does....65% of your wages garnished from your check...before he ever gets it, it's taken right off the top and sent to the custodial parent. And it stays that way until all arrearage is taken care of, then the regular c/s amount is mandatorily garnished from wages until your c/s obligation ceases. If you quit your job, directly to jail...if you are fired, you must appear before the judge (usually within 10 days) and show proof where you will be working so they can garnish those wages...30 days with no job, JAIL. It works.

[Sassy Frass]

Mosaic, there is a problem. He claims to be his own boss now.

[Rootsandwings]

As in own his own business? If so, why can't the courts take money from the business to pay the child support. After finding out who this so-called Dad is it just makes me sick.

[rob]

What you need to do is to find somebody to go "mid-evil" on his ***.

[mosaic]

If you own your own business you have to pay taxes on that business's income so his tax forms can be used to determine his income and, thusly, his child support. Child support has the right to inquire about the c/s payee's lifestyle, vehicle ownership, real estate holdings, etc...and if you can't show how you can afford what you've got, they have every right to question where the income comes from that pays for all he has. Additionally, bank statments can be subpoenaed as well, showing how much money he has and what deposits are made on a regular basis and where that money comes from. Furthermore, if he has transferred any property/assets in the past year, he can be compelled to show who he "gave" it to, why and if any money changed hands. He can only hide money so long....if that is indeed what he's doing.

[Long's Horn]

Like in a million cases, from a family oriented business where money is like a magician, poof! there it is! and POOF! where'd it go! Moms and the kids get screwed. I'm on the kids side always but, this is gong to prove to be a tuff one for the Mom to prove. Especialy with the Inherited Magic Money. In these cases, the majority of the time the book keeper is in the family. Hard to prove much when this is the case.

POOF!

[stickman]

Mosaic,
Trouble is, it's not "dad's" business. The business belongs to "dad's" parents. He just works for the family business. It's very apparent business books can be cooked to skew figures any way the company wants to show them. Look at Enron, WorldCom, and HealthSouth. In this particular case, if "dad" wanted to reduce his child support, how hard would it be for his parents to take his salary from say, $30k/yr to $12k/yr and pay him the difference as cash under the table? How much would that reduce his current child support? Who would be the wiser? Who would benefit and who would lose in a deal like that? All DHR and the Court system would have to look at would be a W-2 and/or a paycheck stub from the employer.

Stickman

[Sassy Frass]

Under the table.....Proving anything in that regard will be the hardest. The Children are the factor. If dad pulls it off, she's already accepted this is very likely. Knowing there isn't anything that can be done after the Judge makes his ruleing. Her anger is the fact of his Non payment and he continues to buy, go, play, and do... more now than ever. If the situation was different, I'm sure she would be more compassionate. I think she's been too nice.

Another mom, I'll call her Patty... recently went to court thinking that her ex-husband was about to pay his back childsupport. 6 yrs @$600 pr month . He walked away without paying a dime and gave up the rights to his own children! Makes me SICK! I do not understand the way these things work. I'm learning.

[Jack B Nimble]

The only thing I see that is the problem here has to do with Daddy not paying childsupport for his children. I do know the Mommy and Daddy. I would like to say I know the two of them well, as mommy has moved away I do not see them often enough. Some surely repectable people here, seem to have bashed mommy for her efforts to recover what is needed for the maintanence of their children. Her life is not under the micro-scope here, it is his. The idea that he has (and he is) decieved his income and the things he has obtained, angers me and my wife. His parents are good people but, do protect their son over all others. To the point of loosing the self-respect of others in the process. I know the parents have just recently become informed of the "way things really are , with their son and his relationship with his children, non-responsiveness and such. To their blind eyes, are no longer such. It is our knowledge (wife and I), Daddy's parents are slowly mending the relationship with the mother of thier Grandchildren, as such was lost when their eyes did close. (nothing special, but showing her kindness now)

[stickman]

Originally posted by Jack B Nimble
I know the parents have just recently become informed of the "way things really are , with their son and his relationship with his children, non-responsiveness and such. To their blind eyes, are no longer such. It is our knowledge (wife and I), Daddy's parents are slowly mending the relationship with the mother of thier Grandchildren, as such was lost when their eyes did close. (nothing special, but showing her kindness now)

If this is truly the case, then I am sure it will be a welcomed change. I know it is human nature for a family to be protective of their offspring. I also see that parents may be blinded to reality when it comes to their children. Maybe now that "dad's" parents are becoming enlightened to what is really going on we will begin to see a change in events here to the benefit of everyone involved. This is the type of change I have been hoping to motivate all along with this forum. Not to pit mom against dad against grandparents. Not to publicly embarass this family by exposing the identity of the "deadbeat dad" (unless it was a last resort). I just wanted to get grandparents to open their eyes, see what is going on, and steer their son to own up to and be a man about his responsibilities to his children.

I still question the motive behind the W-2 for "private school tuition" sent to the ex-wife by the "family business" and the method by which this came about. I wonder if the grandparents will make this situation right as well.

Sassy, you know we'll be expecting some input from your friend on this message as well as from Jack B Nimble's post. Check it out and get back to us.

Jack B Nimble, thanks for the insight from your end. I appreciate you coming forward and making this known. If you will, please keep us informed of developments from the other side.

Stickman

[Rootsandwings]

Now that the grandparents know what is going on I do hope they do what they can to rectify this situation. Knowing them, I truly think they will.

[Sassy Frass]

Honestly, I do believe the whole situation surprised them, almost to disbelief. Nothing has been said about the W-2 to me lately and she did express the children stayed with their Grandmother over the weekend. She even met her when getting the children and when bringing them home. She seemed happy about the way things went.

The "Grandparents" have no control over their son. He's a grown man. I just pray he'll come around. Sometimes it takes a drastic thing to wake some people up.

But, the W-2 situation, I don't think anything will change about that. And I think this guy's thinking he'll get the modification down to about 300 a month too. Is that possible?

[Rootsandwings]

Sassy Frass,
When does this go in front of the judge? Has a date been set yet?

[Bug]

What does the W-2 and private school have to do with all of this?
Did he cheat someone out of some money or something? Why is
it a big deal that these kids are going to a private school? A judge
can not order the kids be put in a private school nor will sending them to a private school paid by dad count towards his support. If the mom has a problem with them being in private school then why doesn't she take them out?

[Rootsandwings]

The kids going to private school is not the point. What everyone is trying to figure out is why did the family business give Mom a W-2 for the tuition Dad (or his family) paid for private school?

[Bug]

Oh..okay. I figured if I went back far enuff i'd see what all that was about but when I get on this site I don't have much time so I hoped someone would answer that ? for me...and thanks.

[stickman]

Originally posted by Bug
What does the W-2 and private school have to do with all of this?
Did he cheat someone out of some money or something? Why is
it a big deal that these kids are going to a private school? A judge
can not order the kids be put in a private school nor will sending them to a private school paid by dad count towards his support. If the mom has a problem with them being in private school then why doesn't she take them out?

Here's the deal with private school and the W-2.

Mom was perfectly okay with sending the kids to public school. Instead, dad's family wanted the children to go to private school. The deal was that the grandparents paid half the private school tuition and mom pays the other half. Last fall, grandmother shows up at Mom's house with a check in the amount of the private school tuition and asks Mom to sign the check, then hand it back to her. Grandmother takes the check and goes back home. First of the year, Mom receives a W-2 for the amount of the tuition as contract labor and has to pay income taxes on it. That's the deal with the private school and the W-2.

Some people think that the private school tuition could count towards Dad's child support. WRONG! It is not considered child support. Private school is an option, not a necessity. The $900/month Dad was ordered by the court to pay Mom to help out in raising the three children he "fathered" is NOT an option! This is the heart of this whole ordeal...the fact that Dad doesn't think he has to meet this obligation. The fact that Dad is in the process of trying to get his child support modified by claiming he has no job, or his income has been drastically reduced. If you know the dad, then go figure!

Stickman

[Rootsandwings]

You are right - Go Figure with him. I do NOT think that the private school tuition should count towards the child support. While I have nothing against private schools (I attended one myself) it sounds to me like that is just the grandparents trying to out do others - as they always do.

[Bug]

I don't know these folks and don't want to know them. If MOM is having to pay half of their tuition then why doesn't she take them out and put them in public school. It would save her money and if DAD (or grands) is paying the other half then that is money not being paid to MOM that could be paid to MOM.

[stickman]

Point taken Bug! This has been proposed to Mom as well.

[Sassy Frass]

UPDATE.... Mother Friend is just waiting for the court system to handle this matter. It is unfortunate, how long this could really take. She's in it for the long haul and to try to make certain nothing will be over looked this time.

His actions with the children have not changed. Everyother weekend, coming up with a lame reason why he can't drive to get them. So those children have to CALL HIM BACK on Saturday! Leaving the burdon on them! (Told that child to call him back, he may not remember to !) Yet and still, blaming Mother for him not having adequete visits with them. Makes me sick!

It has been told, the books are brewing. I hope there's a way this can be stopped. A court day should be set soon, I suppose. Wonder what little trick he's going to pull out of his hat to get through this one!

[stickman]

I would hope if Deadbeat Dad's parents have taken notice of their son's behavior and really have had a change of heart they would not be doing this. Evasion of child support is as bad or worse than stealing out of the collection plate at church in my book! If these people are really the fine, upstanding people that some members have posted they are, I would only hope their conscience would guide them to do the right thing.

On the other hand, IF there really is "book cooking" and "payroll doctoring" going on in the family business to help this deadbeat avoid paying what is rightfully due his children, then I would hope the whole lot of them be hounded forever by the IRS for the rest of their lives on earth before they burn in Hades for eternity over it. That's just how despicable I think it is for people to shirk their responsibilities to their children.

[Bug]

Once again, Amen Stickman! I don't know these people but I have often wondered about Deadbeat Dads parents being the Standup Folks they are being credited as being as well. I KNOW Deadbeat Dad is a grown man and all that but the parents must be a part of it if he works for them and book cooking, etc. is all
involved.

[stickman]

Just remember that the book cooking and payroll doctoring is ALLEGED, not a proven fact. I have heard the rumblings, but have no hard proof on this one.